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Old 02-02-2017, 01:18 PM
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TonyFtLaud TonyFtLaud is offline
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Default The current state of the Franchise, how we got here and how to fix it.

So I will begin by saying this is my personal assessment of where we are at the moment.
What led us to where we are and what I believe should be done going forward. Fell free to add your thoughts. Opinion on what you feel would be the right way to fix things. I'm not an expert,just a disgruntled Jets fan who sometimes blames my Father for bringing me into the fold of Jets fans and who often sits awake all night wracked with guilt for doing the same horrific thing to my son. I have told him to get counseling. He must break the cycle. He can't pass the pain of being a Jet fan on to his children.
So it really shouldn't surprise anyone that this team had an absolutely terrible season. Not only did we loose 11 games but we were embarrassed in most of them. The team flat out quit after week 3 and the coaching was abysmal. The locker room was fractured, the players starting, in the off season aired their opinions to the media and everything all season was on public display. The signs were all there during the 2015 season. While we did manage 10 wins, they came against pretty bad opponents and we never looked good. It was exciting because we managed to hold on to win many games but had alot of luck along the way and could have easily lost many of those games.
So we are in shambles , have holes all over the roster, are several million over the cap, are struggling to find any one to join the coaching staff and have no real answer to who will be our starting QB next season. Overall we are in about the worst position of any team in the league.
So how did we get here? After all we rebuilt this team and made the AFC championship 2 years in a row. That was the beginning of the downward spiral. The roster was full of old vets with backloaded contracts. We went all in and just missed. Mister "Can't wait"
And the entire defense waited until the second half to show up vs Pittsburgh in the AFC title game and the window was closed on that team.
Welcome to 2013. The Rebuild part Deux. The roster was purged due to cap issues and we essentially played with a depleted roster with our eyes on the 2014 draft. Loaded with cash and a dozen draft picks. The future looked bright. 2014 came and some free agents were signed but plenty of cash was reserved.
2015 brought a new GM and Coach who went all in on free agents ,bringing in veterans right as the 2013 & 2014 Draft classes should have been hitting maturity.The roster with those 19 draft picks and the FA vets should have been excellent, unfortunately there was little to no contribution from the 2 draft classes. Richardson ,Enunwa ,and Pryor remained but didn't do much. The new coach and GM inherited a roster that proved to be as void of talent as it was in 2013. Basically wasting 3 years of a 4 year rebuild.
2016 the house of cards built on the foundation of ageing vets came crashing down leaving us essentially in a position where we are in a rebuild mode again.

So where do we go from here?
We obviously must clear alot of cap space. This is where alot of fans will disagree, take offense,allow sentiment to cloud their judgement. We have to part ways with the veterans who are not likely to be contributing players in 2019 or beyond. That means Revis, Harris, Claddy, Henderson, Austin Safarian Jenkins, Giacomini, Fitzpatrick and Geno and Revis. Try to trade
Mangold , Marshall , Decker and Richardson. If we can't trade them, cut them. Most of them will play and it would mean plenty of compensatory picks in 2018. Obviously we have to fill the holes left and that should be done with cheap young players. Our win loss record will suffer but honestly, not by much and the cap savings. Around $50 mill can be rolled over to 2018 and 2019.
Mac may have to get used to trading back to add picks instead of going into the draft with 5-6 picks, let's try to have 8 -9 picks. It's easier to hit on 4 picks I'd you have 8-9 chances than I'd you have 5-6.
This is painful for me to say but as cheaterhater brought up earlier today , Changing the Coaching staff again just breaks continuity and the young players suffer. I do not believe Bowles has what it takes to be a successful head coach but for now , we should stick with him for that reason and because it will be difficult to land a top candidate if were seen as an impatient franchise with a revolving door at the head coaching position.
Lastly and by no means less important than anything else. Woody must hire a Football mind to oversee the daily operation of the team. Mac should have complete control over the roster and some input on who plays.
Bowles must get involved with the entire team. Must attend offensive meetings and must demand respect and accountability from every player on the roster.
There must be a culture change and with the vets and dissents gone, it will be much easier to implement that change.
No more airing complaints to the media, campaigning for a friends roster spot all off season. Zero tolerance must be the policy going forward.
I honestly believe this would be the best way to turn the franchise around. It's going to be painful for a year or two but in the long run it will pay off.

I'm sure many will disagree , some will feel we just need a few free agents and we can win the super bowl next year, or if we draft the right player at 6 and trade a free agent or two for one or two of our vets we are ready to compete but in my opinion, We are in full rebuild and the cuts, while painful are needed. Going into 2019 with a talented young roster hitting it's stride $75 - $80 million in cap space would be worth it.
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Old 02-02-2017, 07:44 PM
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Gramoah Gramoah is offline
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Originally Posted by TonyFtLaud View Post
So I will begin by saying this is my personal assessment of where we are at the moment.
What led us to where we are and what I believe should be done going forward. Fell free to add your thoughts. Opinion on what you feel would be the right way to fix things. I'm not an expert,just a disgruntled Jets fan who sometimes blames my Father for bringing me into the fold of Jets fans and who often sits awake all night wracked with guilt for doing the same horrific thing to my son. I have told him to get counseling. He must break the cycle. He can't pass the pain of being a Jet fan on to his children.
So it really shouldn't surprise anyone that this team had an absolutely terrible season. Not only did we loose 11 games but we were embarrassed in most of them. The team flat out quit after week 3 and the coaching was abysmal. The locker room was fractured, the players starting, in the off season aired their opinions to the media and everything all season was on public display. The signs were all there during the 2015 season. While we did manage 10 wins, they came against pretty bad opponents and we never looked good. It was exciting because we managed to hold on to win many games but had alot of luck along the way and could have easily lost many of those games.
So we are in shambles , have holes all over the roster, are several million over the cap, are struggling to find any one to join the coaching staff and have no real answer to who will be our starting QB next season. Overall we are in about the worst position of any team in the league.
So how did we get here? After all we rebuilt this team and made the AFC championship 2 years in a row. That was the beginning of the downward spiral. The roster was full of old vets with backloaded contracts. We went all in and just missed. Mister "Can't wait"
And the entire defense waited until the second half to show up vs Pittsburgh in the AFC title game and the window was closed on that team.
Welcome to 2013. The Rebuild part Deux. The roster was purged due to cap issues and we essentially played with a depleted roster with our eyes on the 2014 draft. Loaded with cash and a dozen draft picks. The future looked bright. 2014 came and some free agents were signed but plenty of cash was reserved.
2015 brought a new GM and Coach who went all in on free agents ,bringing in veterans right as the 2013 & 2014 Draft classes should have been hitting maturity.The roster with those 19 draft picks and the FA vets should have been excellent, unfortunately there was little to no contribution from the 2 draft classes. Richardson ,Enunwa ,and Pryor remained but didn't do much. The new coach and GM inherited a roster that proved to be as void of talent as it was in 2013. Basically wasting 3 years of a 4 year rebuild.
2016 the house of cards built on the foundation of ageing vets came crashing down leaving us essentially in a position where we are in a rebuild mode again.

So where do we go from here?
We obviously must clear alot of cap space. This is where alot of fans will disagree, take offense,allow sentiment to cloud their judgement. We have to part ways with the veterans who are not likely to be contributing players in 2019 or beyond. That means Revis, Harris, Claddy, Henderson, Austin Safarian Jenkins, Giacomini, Fitzpatrick and Geno and Revis. Try to trade
Mangold , Marshall , Decker and Richardson. If we can't trade them, cut them. Most of them will play and it would mean plenty of compensatory picks in 2018. Obviously we have to fill the holes left and that should be done with cheap young players. Our win loss record will suffer but honestly, not by much and the cap savings. Around $50 mill can be rolled over to 2018 and 2019.
Mac may have to get used to trading back to add picks instead of going into the draft with 5-6 picks, let's try to have 8 -9 picks. It's easier to hit on 4 picks I'd you have 8-9 chances than I'd you have 5-6.
This is painful for me to say but as cheaterhater brought up earlier today , Changing the Coaching staff again just breaks continuity and the young players suffer. I do not believe Bowles has what it takes to be a successful head coach but for now , we should stick with him for that reason and because it will be difficult to land a top candidate if were seen as an impatient franchise with a revolving door at the head coaching position.
Lastly and by no means less important than anything else. Woody must hire a Football mind to oversee the daily operation of the team. Mac should have complete control over the roster and some input on who plays.
Bowles must get involved with the entire team. Must attend offensive meetings and must demand respect and accountability from every player on the roster.
There must be a culture change and with the vets and dissents gone, it will be much easier to implement that change.
No more airing complaints to the media, campaigning for a friends roster spot all off season. Zero tolerance must be the policy going forward.
I honestly believe this would be the best way to turn the franchise around. It's going to be painful for a year or two but in the long run it will pay off.

I'm sure many will disagree , some will feel we just need a few free agents and we can win the super bowl next year, or if we draft the right player at 6 and trade a free agent or two for one or two of our vets we are ready to compete but in my opinion, We are in full rebuild and the cuts, while painful are needed. Going into 2019 with a talented young roster hitting it's stride $75 - $80 million in cap space would be worth it.
You know, I'm beginning to think that most of the time you and I are following each other around on here, but, there are a couple of others posting besides us. You are certainly right that we are in serious trouble with our cap space. I think we are, and I'm guessing because I'm not 100% sure, about 12 mil over. I also tend to agree mostly with your cuts/trade list. Mangold is 33 years old so we likely wouldn't gain much trading him and it would be good for him to break in the new guy. I'd also probably keep Decker. I know he's not a number one receiver but he's still good enough to be a positive influence on our young receivers. Also, I agree that we have to keep Bowles and hope for improvement. Recycling the coaching staff almost always has a bad effect on teams, at least short term. Frequently it means that the players have to learn a new system and we all know that speeds things up. We do have some young talent on this team that looks promising so we don't have to replace everyone. I would prefer that we didn't tap the free agency market unless it is a young player with real, not imagined or unjustified hopeful, talent. So, I guess, I also agree on trying to get more draft picks. This ship hasn't sunk yet, but, it has capsized and a rebuild is the only way I see to refloat it.
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:47 PM
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TonyFtLaud TonyFtLaud is offline
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The board tends to quiet down a lot this time of year, except when we are in the Superbowl. Lol but it has been exceptionally quiet. Seems like you me and cheaterhater are the last fans standing.
Honesty, I think Mangold should be offered a lower contact. If he accepts let him stay. If not, he could retire like Brick last year. I love the guy but I think the cap savings would be better come 2019. Decker had 2 major surgeries and may not be ready to play at the start of the season. He will be 30 next month and won't likely be on the roster come 2019. Another player I really like but it just makes sense financially to move on. It's difficult to remove the sentiment, especially as a fan but it is what separates the good teams from the bad. Idzick crippled us and left us in this position. The talent we missed on in 14 would have us in the playoffs a couple players away from the Superbowl. We had so many opportunities to trade up and every round we sat and saw out pick taken one or two picks before us. I think we are closer to $10 million over the cap , including Winters new contract ,and need another $4.5 to sign our draft class. We can clear over $50 million so we are OK there. I just don't want to see the usual restructuring old players and having lots of dead money later. By 2018 ,our cap should be clear of all that dead cap space, Right when the young players are coming into their own. I'd prefer to have all that cap space when Free agents would put us over the top and not spend it on them now in hopes of a wild card. I also think that the young players will grow much faster with more reps and game experience.
We are pretty much in agreement, now we just have to get the FO on board !!!
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Old 02-03-2017, 08:41 AM
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Not sure how you've decided that Geno is unlikely to be contributing in 2019 but Petty and Hackensack are. To my way of thinking it's an unresolved issue which is another thing that makes the last season so frustrating. We may have to part with one of them anyway, but don't be surprised if the nominee comes back as the heir to Brady or something.

Trouble with cutting Clady is that we don't have a left tackle and we will be unable to develop a QB until we do. Wouldn't you like to see what Safarian-Jenkins can do with an OC that likes tight ends?
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:11 AM
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Not sure how you've decided that Geno is unlikely to be contributing in 2019 but Petty and Hackensack are. To my way of thinking it's an unresolved issue which is another thing that makes the last season so frustrating. We may have to part with one of them anyway, but don't be surprised if the nominee comes back as the heir to Brady or something.

Trouble with cutting Clady is that we don't have a left tackle and we will be unable to develop a QB until we do. Wouldn't you like to see what Safarian-Jenkins can do with an OC that likes tight ends?
Geno is not under contract past this season. I'm assuming that you are suggesting signing him as a free agent this off season.
I agree about Petty and Hack for next season but unless one of them shows something, we need a QB. As far as one of them becoming the heir to Brady,I could care less. I'm a Jet fan and not consumed by jealousy of NEs success. Besides, Belichick has proven he can plug less talented players, including QBs and succeed.
Mac restructured Claddy to buy himself the entire off season to either 1 find a replacement, or 2 release and resign him at a reasonable contract after Free agency is over and the money dries up. I am opposed to paying $10 million for Claddy to vacation on injured reserve. I don't see him protecting any QBs blind side from the trainer's table.
As for your Myth about Gailey not liking tight ends , Gailey happened to be an OC who loves tight ends. He was actually a TE coach in Denver early in his career. He developed Tony Gonzalez as head coach at Georgia Tech and was OC at KC and Gonzalez thrived. Scott Chandler was pretty involved in the Bills offense under Gailey. The problem was, he had terrible TEs in NY. Also, most fail to consider that Enunwa , while a WR was used frequently as a tight end and that production is credited to the WR corp when it should be credited to the Tight end production . Safarian Jenkins has issues, multiple DUI arrest. For whatever reason, he couldn't make his way onto the field when the team was desperate for a TE, same as in Tampa Bay with a QB who loves his TE. Was it missed blocking assignments, poor or wrong routes, inability to learn the play book? I don't know. But we still need a second TE unless we continue to use Enunwa as a TE , in which case we need another WR.
This team is not going to compete next season, unless Mac spends all the money saved on the veterans cut on different old FA vets. Then we can expect one season of almost getting to the Superbowl and a lost season the next. If he does, we will be right back here in 2019. With no roster , no money, no coach or GM and no quality Head coach willing to come here. The cycle has to be broken and this is the perfect time to do it.There is some young talent on the roster, a good ,smart draft or better two should yield a very good, young competive roster coupled with a large amount of cap space for the missing pieces in Fa and you have a team that can complete,and continue to compete for years.
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:51 AM
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Not sure how you've decided that Geno is unlikely to be contributing in 2019 but Petty and Hackensack are. To my way of thinking it's an unresolved issue which is another thing that makes the last season so frustrating. We may have to part with one of them anyway, but don't be surprised if the nominee comes back as the heir to Brady or something.

Trouble with cutting Clady is that we don't have a left tackle and we will be unable to develop a QB until we do. Wouldn't you like to see what Safarian-Jenkins can do with an OC that likes tight ends?
First off, thanks for showing up on this lonely forum. I think Geno is as much disenchanted with the Jets as they are with him. I envision him moving on in the hopes that he can jump-start his career with another team. His time here has been filled with more downs than ups. That leaves Petty and Hack and we are not by any means certain that either of them will turn out to be OUR GUY. In light of that I think that we should add another QB from the draft to compete for the job and continue doing that until our guy shows up. I'm not comfortable bringing in a QB from free agency unless it's a one year deal and dirt cheap. We are not going to find our franchise QB in free agency. That's simply not likely to ever happen. It also likely means that we passed on a QB in the draft who might have been that guy. I admit that this line of thinking means that we could easily have another terrible season but I can live with that as long as I see the team getting better with each game as a result of our young talent actually getting to play and develop. As for Claddy, I fear he would spend more time on injured reserve than on the field. That's just a hunch but that's my reasoning for replacing him. I'm sorry to say this, but I have never been high on Safarian-Jenkins, because of his personality and the baggage he brings, not his skill set. Again, thanks for showing up here. I was considering getting Tony and Cheater Hater's phone numbers and just having a conference call. Ha Ha.
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyFtLaud View Post
The board tends to quiet down a lot this time of year, except when we are in the Superbowl. Lol but it has been exceptionally quiet. Seems like you me and cheaterhater are the last fans standing.
Honesty, I think Mangold should be offered a lower contact. If he accepts let him stay. If not, he could retire like Brick last year. I love the guy but I think the cap savings would be better come 2019. Decker had 2 major surgeries and may not be ready to play at the start of the season. He will be 30 next month and won't likely be on the roster come 2019. Another player I really like but it just makes sense financially to move on. It's difficult to remove the sentiment, especially as a fan but it is what separates the good teams from the bad. Idzick crippled us and left us in this position. The talent we missed on in 14 would have us in the playoffs a couple players away from the Superbowl. We had so many opportunities to trade up and every round we sat and saw out pick taken one or two picks before us. I think we are closer to $10 million over the cap , including Winters new contract ,and need another $4.5 to sign our draft class. We can clear over $50 million so we are OK there. I just don't want to see the usual restructuring old players and having lots of dead money later. By 2018 ,our cap should be clear of all that dead cap space, Right when the young players are coming into their own. I'd prefer to have all that cap space when Free agents would put us over the top and not spend it on them now in hopes of a wild card. I also think that the young players will grow much faster with more reps and game experience.
We are pretty much in agreement, now we just have to get the FO on board !!!
I agree with asking him to take a cut to help the team but it was obvious that when he wasn't on the field defenses ran through the middle of our line like it wasn't even there. It was so bad that I think I could have gotten through and, Tony, I'm 75 years old. We don't have a viable replacement even though replacing him would be a good thing for our cap space. Who do suggest we fill his spot with that can be that much of an impact player ? I understand your concerns over Decker's health. I have the same concerns but was thinking that he would still be an asset in developing our young talent.

Last edited by Gramoah; 02-03-2017 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 02-03-2017, 02:13 PM
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I agree with asking him to take a cut to help the team but it was obvious that when he wasn't on the field defenses ran through the middle of our line like it wasn't even there. It was so bad that I think I could have gotten through and, Tony, I'm 75 years old. We don't have a viable replacement even though replacing him would be a good thing for our cap space. Who do suggest we fill his spot with that can be that much of an impact player ? I understand your concerns over Decker's health. I have the same concerns but was thinking that he would still be an asset in developing our young talent.
I think Mangold may retire regardless of the team trying to restructure him.There are some very good options in the draft,mid to late round. Wesley Johnson is far from the ideal solution but he was essentially a free 5 the round pick. I would keep him and draft a center. Johnson can play multiple positions has upside and Mangold has been declining. I love the guy but his level of play is not the same and it will never be the same. Also Johnson did improve as the Season went on. I know it may be hard to believe but he graded out as top 5 offensive player on the Jets most games and was the top graded center in the league for week 14.
I'm on the fence with Decker. I don't see him performing at a high level next season. I could be Ong but he is coming off 2 major surgeries ,has tons of rehab ahead and is 30. I'm 50, I unfortunately will not be blessed to see 75 like you due to medical issues but I still chuckle when I say a guy is too old at 30. But in football, 30 is old at most positions. I understand that he could be a mentor to the young recievers but if he can't play or play at a high level, Morton can mentor the recievers or hire a retired reciever to mentor them and not hurt the cap. I'm not adamant that he should be cut. We don't have the luxury of being in touch with the DRs and evaluation on his recovery so it's all assumption on my part. If he has positive medical reports,I'd love to see him back.
As I said. Some of the cuts will be painful, most will leave holes in the roster. We will get worse before we get better.
It's hard to stomach after going through this twice so recently but as I said. There are 2 paths we can take. Win now, hope for a wild card and start over again in 19 or suffer through a few more losses over 2 seasons and have a good young sustainable roster that can complete for years.
There is no obvious solution to several positions but my personal take as I posted in my mock draft was addressing the LT position, Center, QB, TE, RB, and corners via the draft . Our D line is solid, we would still need OLB, S, SS , WR , o line depth and quite possibly another QB lol. Sad but it's a position we have to keep trying until we hit. Next draft we target those positions. But the O Line will be solid, the addition of a quality TE and RB will give the QB everything he needs to develop. The defense will have holes but would be much improved over this season. Heck. If the draft fell out like I mocked. I'd be willing to bet that the team we field next season would beat this year's team 8 out 10 games.
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Old 02-03-2017, 03:05 PM
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I think Mangold may retire regardless of the team trying to restructure him.There are some very good options in the draft,mid to late round. Wesley Johnson is far from the ideal solution but he was essentially a free 5 the round pick. I would keep him and draft a center. Johnson can play multiple positions has upside and Mangold has been declining. I love the guy but his level of play is not the same and it will never be the same. Also Johnson did improve as the Season went on. I know it may be hard to believe but he graded out as top 5 offensive player on the Jets most games and was the top graded center in the league for week 14.
I'm on the fence with Decker. I don't see him performing at a high level next season. I could be Ong but he is coming off 2 major surgeries ,has tons of rehab ahead and is 30. I'm 50, I unfortunately will not be blessed to see 75 like you due to medical issues but I still chuckle when I say a guy is too old at 30. But in football, 30 is old at most positions. I understand that he could be a mentor to the young recievers but if he can't play or play at a high level, Morton can mentor the recievers or hire a retired reciever to mentor them and not hurt the cap. I'm not adamant that he should be cut. We don't have the luxury of being in touch with the DRs and evaluation on his recovery so it's all assumption on my part. If he has positive medical reports,I'd love to see him back.
As I said. Some of the cuts will be painful, most will leave holes in the roster. We will get worse before we get better.
It's hard to stomach after going through this twice so recently but as I said. There are 2 paths we can take. Win now, hope for a wild card and start over again in 19 or suffer through a few more losses over 2 seasons and have a good young sustainable roster that can complete for years.
There is no obvious solution to several positions but my personal take as I posted in my mock draft was addressing the LT position, Center, QB, TE, RB, and corners via the draft . Our D line is solid, we would still need OLB, S, SS , WR , o line depth and quite possibly another QB lol. Sad but it's a position we have to keep trying until we hit. Next draft we target those positions. But the O Line will be solid, the addition of a quality TE and RB will give the QB everything he needs to develop. The defense will have holes but would be much improved over this season. Heck. If the draft fell out like I mocked. I'd be willing to bet that the team we field next season would beat this year's team 8 out 10 games.
Ha, Ha. That's not saying much. Our local high school team could beat these guys the way they played this season. Sorry to hear that you have medical issues. My younger brother has similar issues. He has a form of A.L.S.. I'll put you on my prayer list my football friend. You are absolutely right that it will likely get worse before it gets better if we do it right. I for one am hoping that we will do it right for a change. No more band aid fixes with hopes of making the playoffs one season and then winding up on bottom again the following year. I would like to see a team on the field that is a contender every year from now on. To achieve this, in my mind, we need to bite the bullet and rebuild a young team and manage player replacements in a way that keeps it young and competitive. I also think that another "good" RB will take a lot of strain off whoever is our QB.
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyFtLaud View Post
The board tends to quiet down a lot this time of year, except when we are in the Superbowl. Lol but it has been exceptionally quiet. Seems like you me and cheaterhater are the last fans standing.
Honesty, I think Mangold should be offered a lower contact. If he accepts let him stay. If not, he could retire like Brick last year. I love the guy but I think the cap savings would be better come 2019. Decker had 2 major surgeries and may not be ready to play at the start of the season. He will be 30 next month and won't likely be on the roster come 2019. Another player I really like but it just makes sense financially to move on. It's difficult to remove the sentiment, especially as a fan but it is what separates the good teams from the bad. Idzick crippled us and left us in this position. The talent we missed on in 14 would have us in the playoffs a couple players away from the Superbowl. We had so many opportunities to trade up and every round we sat and saw out pick taken one or two picks before us. I think we are closer to $10 million over the cap , including Winters new contract ,and need another $4.5 to sign our draft class. We can clear over $50 million so we are OK there. I just don't want to see the usual restructuring old players and having lots of dead money later. By 2018 ,our cap should be clear of all that dead cap space, Right when the young players are coming into their own. I'd prefer to have all that cap space when Free agents would put us over the top and not spend it on them now in hopes of a wild card. I also think that the young players will grow much faster with more reps and game experience.
We are pretty much in agreement, now we just have to get the FO on board !!!
yup. belichick has proven that you can not show loyalty to anyone. even if they are the reason that you won 3 superbowls. Do I agree with that wway of thinking? Nope. Could I cut a favorite player who has given his life to this team and gotten nothing in return? Nope But it is the way to maintain or build a winning organization
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